22 thoughts on “I can’t add to that except fuck some engineers…”
I think it was BMW that was putting starters inside the bellhousing on some of their cars.
Drop the trans to change a starter? NO thanks!
I loved my 2003 Toyota TRD Offroad Tacoma but the water pump was driven by the timing belt. What the actual fuck? To be fair it never went out but I just changed when I changed the timing belt.
Changing the starter was also a nightmare. It comes out through the wheel well. Or I guess you could just pull the engine.
I’m so retarded, I drive an ’86 Toyota pick up, before pick ups got names. So when you open the hood, starter, water pump, alternator, belt tentioner, etc., are right there, you can actually see them and get to them. Easy to change oil and filter. Happy hack! I don’t have to buy a miniature $8 filter, I can use a Ford Ph8a, the full size standardest old oil filter, yeay! Sometimes it’s easier bein a tard.
I loved those older Toyota trucks and you’re right – they were named “Toyota Pick Up Truck”. We should get back to calling things what they actually are!
My old 78 HiLUX was totally cool. but some 16 year old chick slammed itnno the side of it, Then I got thrown into to other cars into the oncoming lane., and ran into two cars. Oh, I was pissed. Ten minutes out of the plywood mill shift, and this stuff happened on my way home from work at 11 pm.
Geez. I’m amazed I’m still vertical.
Reminds of on old Seadoo I had with the starter mounted UNDER the motor…
It really put the F U in Fun!
It’s intentional! If the mechanic doesn’t want to eff with it or has troubles reaching it…then the sporting stubfart with imaginary mechanical aptitude won’t screw with it either…
That’s a Cadillac NorthStar 4.6L V8, and a giant hunk of shit IMHO. Changing an alternator on that one is almost as bad as the starter (has to be dropped out from underneath through a small opening next to the oil pan; not easy with a lift, and a real bitch for a driveway mechanic flat backing it.
Worse still, they were infamous for the head boots pulling out of the aluminum block and warping the heads of overheated (the head bolts were lengthened and the threads made coarser through numerous running design changes from 93-2003) and they still had problems. Once they pulled, the stripped bolt holes in the block had to be timeserted, and you hoped like hell that repair lasted the remaining expected service life of the engine.
They dumped the 4.9L pushrod V8 (which was the lowest warranty claim engine in Cadillac’s history) for that sack of dogsqueeze. Sure, it made another 75-100hp (depending on how it was tuned) over the 4.9L – which delivered 200hp – but it was much less reliable and much more difficult to work on. And I know, because I’ve worked on both. Still have a DeVille with the 4.9L V8, and it’s still a great car at almost 30 years old.
In an almost 40 year career as a mechanical designer/draftsman, I worked in several different industries on over 2 dozen contracts ranging from aerospace to the fast food preparation business.
The 2 most fuc&ed up contracts(other the last one at Kratos) were the ones for the automotive industry. What a flipping nightmare! I would swear that the engineers were addicted to LSD, Peyote, and funky weeds found on back country roads.
One contract, the engineering office was located in a wooded area, with lots of Canada Geese walking around the property and leaving green cat tu&d size messes. I asked one of the engineers if he and his colleagues smoked those things, because I couldn’t figure out how else they came up with their designs.
I will confess that I am not a car buff; car shows bore the heck out of me and I’ve never understood the appeal of auto racing/customization.
How about the appeal of going fast?
Once ypu lnow everything about a subject you can learn nothing from other people, I guess.
I’d rather build them to drive them and see what other people try that works or not, but I’m a forester.
Awhile back I seen one in the transmission bell housing as well
I spent 14 years working my way up the ladder (warehouse worker, then an assembler, then a production technician, then engineering technician) before I got my degree and was promoted to engineer (and stayed there for the next 30 years. That time spent having to deal with the pain of these sorts of idiotic design decisions helped me to become a better engineer, because I could anticipate the pain that my design choices would cause the people having to live with them. My colleagues who went straight from university into engineering almost always view me as obstructionist when I tried to make their designs more friendly to “the little people” (their words, not mine). There is so much hubris among the new engineers coming straight out of the American university system. Too much reliance on theory and models and too few busted knuckles in their background.I believe we would be better of if we went back to the old guild system (apprentice, journeyman, master) where you had to learn your craft from people who actually worked for a living, not ivory tower engineering professors who are only book-smart.
Exactly right. The last newly-minted “engineer” that got hired before I was retired was an arrogant little snot who tried to tell me how our products worked before he even saw one in real life. The second time I took him out to the field, he did exactly what I told him NOT to do with a customer and I told the boss, I’m never taking that little shit anywhere ever again. He hung around a couple years and parlayed that little bit of experience into a job with one of our vendors and everyone rejoiced.
I worked for a boss who reckoned a gashed forehead and skinned knuckles were a better qualification in a drawing office than a first class honours degree from a top university.
Plus having worked on and maintained my own British motorbikes (from 1972 onwards) I could relate.
The solenoid was the weak link on the toyota starter that was located under the intake manifold on the V8. The plunger had a plastic guide that would swell over time due to the heat. Toyota said it was a 6 hour job to replace the starter and it took me 10 hours. But I also had the intake steam cleaned, injectors cleaned/serviced and I replaced all rubber hoses on the engine.
BMW built a V8 in the ’90s that had a liquid cooled alternator that was housed in the timing case. Jump starting could fry the diodes so then you had to drain the radiator and remove it to make enough room to get the alternator out.
Had a 74 T Bird, loved that car, would pass anything but a gas station with it’s 460/4 barrel. The problem was, the starter solenoid was right up against the exhaust manifold. It had a heat shield on it, but would still burn out the solenoid ever 3 years or so.
To replace the starter, you had to drop the entire steering linkage. All coarse threaded with no room to work without a lift. I had to resort to putting a bottle jack under a box end wrench to take the 2 very large bolts off that connected the steering to the frame.
Being an engineer and a grease monkey, I can understand both sides of this one.
Engineer – hey, look at all that empty space between the intake and exhaust headers, we can make the whole engine 3.962 CM narrower if we place the starter there, also save about 44 grams weight.
Grease monkey – who was the fucking moron that decided to do this?
Vehicle owner – you want to charge me HOW MUCH to replace a starter????? Part 76 bucks, labor $2000??? HO LEE FUCK!
Engineer/Grease Monkey – Not ever buying another vehicle newer than 1973 model year ever again.
1973 is too late. EPA stuff started getting in the system after ’72. Pickups held out until 77 or 78
One of the problems with the Kratos contract was the contempt/disdain for the would be end users, USAF enlisted techs, by both the engineers and by the Kratos managers.
I designed and added features to my computer models to improve both safety and ergonomics for the people that would be working with the items. Things such as adding blends to edges to minimize cuts to hands trying to lift the parts, hand grips to make transport easier, and so on.
I was told to delete these features, as it would slightly increase the cost to manufacture. When I protested, I was told by the engineering manager that he didn’t care; why did I care? My answer was that almost a half century ago, I was one of the kids that would have to work on these things(USAF 46250). Shortly afterwards, I was told by two USAF officers that they didn’t give a (d)uck about enlisted people. This callousness contributed to my decision to quit the assignment soon afterwards.
What a contrast with my assignment at BAE Systems, where I spent a year improving safety on the M88A2. I was lead designer on making over 50 improvements, some of them fiendishly complex to model, but would drastically lower head injuries for the crew and maintainers.
Thank you, sir, for your time/effort/energy to “do it right”.
We need more designers like you.
I think it was BMW that was putting starters inside the bellhousing on some of their cars.
Drop the trans to change a starter? NO thanks!
I loved my 2003 Toyota TRD Offroad Tacoma but the water pump was driven by the timing belt. What the actual fuck? To be fair it never went out but I just changed when I changed the timing belt.
Changing the starter was also a nightmare. It comes out through the wheel well. Or I guess you could just pull the engine.
I’m so retarded, I drive an ’86 Toyota pick up, before pick ups got names. So when you open the hood, starter, water pump, alternator, belt tentioner, etc., are right there, you can actually see them and get to them. Easy to change oil and filter. Happy hack! I don’t have to buy a miniature $8 filter, I can use a Ford Ph8a, the full size standardest old oil filter, yeay! Sometimes it’s easier bein a tard.
I loved those older Toyota trucks and you’re right – they were named “Toyota Pick Up Truck”. We should get back to calling things what they actually are!
My old 78 HiLUX was totally cool. but some 16 year old chick slammed itnno the side of it, Then I got thrown into to other cars into the oncoming lane., and ran into two cars. Oh, I was pissed. Ten minutes out of the plywood mill shift, and this stuff happened on my way home from work at 11 pm.
Geez. I’m amazed I’m still vertical.
Reminds of on old Seadoo I had with the starter mounted UNDER the motor…
It really put the F U in Fun!
It’s intentional! If the mechanic doesn’t want to eff with it or has troubles reaching it…then the sporting stubfart with imaginary mechanical aptitude won’t screw with it either…
That’s a Cadillac NorthStar 4.6L V8, and a giant hunk of shit IMHO. Changing an alternator on that one is almost as bad as the starter (has to be dropped out from underneath through a small opening next to the oil pan; not easy with a lift, and a real bitch for a driveway mechanic flat backing it.
Worse still, they were infamous for the head boots pulling out of the aluminum block and warping the heads of overheated (the head bolts were lengthened and the threads made coarser through numerous running design changes from 93-2003) and they still had problems. Once they pulled, the stripped bolt holes in the block had to be timeserted, and you hoped like hell that repair lasted the remaining expected service life of the engine.
They dumped the 4.9L pushrod V8 (which was the lowest warranty claim engine in Cadillac’s history) for that sack of dogsqueeze. Sure, it made another 75-100hp (depending on how it was tuned) over the 4.9L – which delivered 200hp – but it was much less reliable and much more difficult to work on. And I know, because I’ve worked on both. Still have a DeVille with the 4.9L V8, and it’s still a great car at almost 30 years old.
In an almost 40 year career as a mechanical designer/draftsman, I worked in several different industries on over 2 dozen contracts ranging from aerospace to the fast food preparation business.
The 2 most fuc&ed up contracts(other the last one at Kratos) were the ones for the automotive industry. What a flipping nightmare! I would swear that the engineers were addicted to LSD, Peyote, and funky weeds found on back country roads.
One contract, the engineering office was located in a wooded area, with lots of Canada Geese walking around the property and leaving green cat tu&d size messes. I asked one of the engineers if he and his colleagues smoked those things, because I couldn’t figure out how else they came up with their designs.
I will confess that I am not a car buff; car shows bore the heck out of me and I’ve never understood the appeal of auto racing/customization.
How about the appeal of going fast?
Once ypu lnow everything about a subject you can learn nothing from other people, I guess.
I’d rather build them to drive them and see what other people try that works or not, but I’m a forester.
Awhile back I seen one in the transmission bell housing as well
I spent 14 years working my way up the ladder (warehouse worker, then an assembler, then a production technician, then engineering technician) before I got my degree and was promoted to engineer (and stayed there for the next 30 years. That time spent having to deal with the pain of these sorts of idiotic design decisions helped me to become a better engineer, because I could anticipate the pain that my design choices would cause the people having to live with them. My colleagues who went straight from university into engineering almost always view me as obstructionist when I tried to make their designs more friendly to “the little people” (their words, not mine). There is so much hubris among the new engineers coming straight out of the American university system. Too much reliance on theory and models and too few busted knuckles in their background.I believe we would be better of if we went back to the old guild system (apprentice, journeyman, master) where you had to learn your craft from people who actually worked for a living, not ivory tower engineering professors who are only book-smart.
Exactly right. The last newly-minted “engineer” that got hired before I was retired was an arrogant little snot who tried to tell me how our products worked before he even saw one in real life. The second time I took him out to the field, he did exactly what I told him NOT to do with a customer and I told the boss, I’m never taking that little shit anywhere ever again. He hung around a couple years and parlayed that little bit of experience into a job with one of our vendors and everyone rejoiced.
I worked for a boss who reckoned a gashed forehead and skinned knuckles were a better qualification in a drawing office than a first class honours degree from a top university.
Plus having worked on and maintained my own British motorbikes (from 1972 onwards) I could relate.
The solenoid was the weak link on the toyota starter that was located under the intake manifold on the V8. The plunger had a plastic guide that would swell over time due to the heat. Toyota said it was a 6 hour job to replace the starter and it took me 10 hours. But I also had the intake steam cleaned, injectors cleaned/serviced and I replaced all rubber hoses on the engine.
BMW built a V8 in the ’90s that had a liquid cooled alternator that was housed in the timing case. Jump starting could fry the diodes so then you had to drain the radiator and remove it to make enough room to get the alternator out.
Had a 74 T Bird, loved that car, would pass anything but a gas station with it’s 460/4 barrel. The problem was, the starter solenoid was right up against the exhaust manifold. It had a heat shield on it, but would still burn out the solenoid ever 3 years or so.
To replace the starter, you had to drop the entire steering linkage. All coarse threaded with no room to work without a lift. I had to resort to putting a bottle jack under a box end wrench to take the 2 very large bolts off that connected the steering to the frame.
Being an engineer and a grease monkey, I can understand both sides of this one.
Engineer – hey, look at all that empty space between the intake and exhaust headers, we can make the whole engine 3.962 CM narrower if we place the starter there, also save about 44 grams weight.
Grease monkey – who was the fucking moron that decided to do this?
Vehicle owner – you want to charge me HOW MUCH to replace a starter????? Part 76 bucks, labor $2000??? HO LEE FUCK!
Engineer/Grease Monkey – Not ever buying another vehicle newer than 1973 model year ever again.
1973 is too late. EPA stuff started getting in the system after ’72. Pickups held out until 77 or 78
One of the problems with the Kratos contract was the contempt/disdain for the would be end users, USAF enlisted techs, by both the engineers and by the Kratos managers.
I designed and added features to my computer models to improve both safety and ergonomics for the people that would be working with the items. Things such as adding blends to edges to minimize cuts to hands trying to lift the parts, hand grips to make transport easier, and so on.
I was told to delete these features, as it would slightly increase the cost to manufacture. When I protested, I was told by the engineering manager that he didn’t care; why did I care? My answer was that almost a half century ago, I was one of the kids that would have to work on these things(USAF 46250). Shortly afterwards, I was told by two USAF officers that they didn’t give a (d)uck about enlisted people. This callousness contributed to my decision to quit the assignment soon afterwards.
What a contrast with my assignment at BAE Systems, where I spent a year improving safety on the M88A2. I was lead designer on making over 50 improvements, some of them fiendishly complex to model, but would drastically lower head injuries for the crew and maintainers.
Thank you, sir, for your time/effort/energy to “do it right”.
We need more designers like you.