Manufacturing here in the US creates global pollution.
Manufacturing therefore only can be done in China where pollution does not exist, because if it DID exist there the left would be protesting them 7*24.
Unless of course all those protests are FINANCED by China.
This sounds great on paper, but not only won’t happen, I wouldn’t trust the public school system for diddly shit now, especially anything involving potentially dangerous tools and equipment. If we want to establish private tech schools to this end, I have no problem with that.
No, not like those. Those were scams, something we have an a over abundance of in the FUSA. At least those were driven out of business by their failure to provide a useful product. Meanwhile, government run schools never go out of business, no matter how badly they suck. So, we are grossly overpaying to indoctrinate and churn out classrooms full of uneducated morons.
Maybe President Musk will personally fund technical schools nationwide like Carnegie built libraries and concert halls. He could save money by staffing with H1B visa holders.
One thing that Trump said he’d do that I’m totally in favor of is to get rid of the department of education. If it can be done some other way than the DoE ordering it, I’m down with it.
It will never happen until we abolish the State Rules of having to have a teacher’s certificate ( well, OK, its actually the Teachers Union’s rule, but they control the legislatures in nearly all states).
I know lots of retired folks who could teach machining, carpentry, electrical, electronics, metal-working, auto mechanics, you name it, but the Almighty God of Teaching Certification says ‘No F-ing Way’.
Exactly. Hence my assertion that American education will continue to suck badly until the public school system, and all that comes with it (unions, the NEA, extortionate taxation to fund it all , etc.) gets it’s back broken and is.finally consigned to the scrap heap of history where it rightly belongs. I don’t even think the state should be involved in education, much less the feds.
Government, irrespective of its jurisdiction, always and everywhere has a perverse incentive to not only make education as costly as possible (as doing so puts more money in the pockets of those who run it) but to fuck it up with agendas and social engineering that is not in the best interest of the students, their parents, or the country in general. They need to be driven out of it entirely. But for that to happen will require a fundamental reordering of society that I don’t see as likely anytime soon.
“I don’t even think the state should be involved in education, much less the feds.”
Who’s going to pay for private education? Only rich folks can afford schools that don’t take public $$. Not many rich folks are going to pay for their kids to learn a trade.
What’s the alternative and who will pay for it?
Local school districts that have autonomy to tax, to build, to hire, to fire.
Without all the State and Federal regulations, the cost of doing the business of Education would drop dramatically, making it feasible to finance and govern it on a local level.
Bingo. Not only that, but public schools extort everyone with property taxes to fund their operation. If they didn’t exist, the tax money they steal would still be in everyone’s pocket, so affording education wouldn’t be that much of an issue. Especially since there are many districts that are blowing over $20,000 a year per student now, and there is no way it should cost that much.
Prior to the 1970’s half of Americans didn’t finish high school. Get rid of government rules and girls sports and special ed become optional. Got a “special needs” kid? Tough.
Get rid of government money and who will pay for all the technology used in tech education today? Compare the equipment kids got trained on 40 or 50 years ago to what’s in vocational schools or community colleges today. How many localities could afford that? Smaller rural schools will be screwed.
Simple solutions sound nice. Pie in the sky nostalgia is useless.
If we get government out of schools we’d be living in Lake Woebegone where all the men are strong, all the women are good looking and all the kids above average.
Shilling for the existing system that is broken beyond any hope of reform due to entrenched interests controlling it is no solution either. How many more productive and capable people did we produce when “half of Americans didn’t finish high school”?
I’m willing to get a goodly number more than we do now, even if most “finish” high school, which means nothing for many who graduated, as they gleaned nearly nothing from their attendance, and were passed on down the line like a defective product on an assembly line that has to be kept moving.
Excusing the massive failings of American education (and allowing it to go on unchecked) because one cannot conceive of anything else taking the place of what currently exists is a bullshit copout.
Does the system need improvement? Yes, however your hyperbolic criticism of education could just as easily apply to any institution; the courts, military, church, etc. and is simply mental masturbation. Let’s tear it all down and see what happens is a childish mindset. The inadequate development of critical thinking skills has plagued American education for years, culminating with the election of Trump.
As I suspected, an apologist for the status quo in our midst. You can call my arguments mental masturbation if you wish, nothing hyperbolic about them. My criticism is entirely valid, and not at all overstated as to the severity of the problem.
The failure to fix any of the institutions you mentioned will ultimately result in a real fucking for all of us. Best get ready to take it dry, because nothing is getting fixed, irrespective of who is occupying the White House. We are dialed in for a real game over moment.
Thus endeth the debate, because there is really nothing further to discuss. Denial of what’s coming will not prevent it’s arrival. Good luck, you’re going to need it.
I remember my pap telling me in about 1970, “this school b.s. in getting out of control, all they want is to brainwash you kids into their way of thinking”….I didn’t have a clue what he was talking about, I was only 12…..we lived way out in the sticks…..damn, was my old country farm raised pap prescient in his outlook on education…..thank God him and my mama gave me a good raising and made sure I didn’t get “brainwashed”….I passed that on to my three younguns…..
“How can you tell if a politician is lying….from mayor to president? Their lips are moving”!!
it can be done. but it has to be at the local or state level. there are a lot of retired tool and die makers. machinists who would love to teach others how to do it.
hell, there are a lot of retired guys with skills that could teach or pass on those skills. give the old guys something to do and the damn kids would learn the joy of making something or getting something to work right !
instead of looking at their damn phone all day.
You first have to rein in the lawyers, because that’s what’s behind getting rid of most of the votech programs.
Fear of being sued for injury. Actually being sued for injury.
So much cheaper to turn a school into a ‘fine arts’ magnet school because we need more talented workers at fast food joints and waiters and waitresses.
The pickings are slim for full time shop teachers. Most of the machinists these days are cnc operators. Where I work, if you need something done that doesn’t have a program, you need to find the old guys that can set up and do manual machining. The shop has a 10ee lathe and a Bridgeport, along with an older large lathe and a slew of Haas 5 axis machining centers. The younger guys can make parts with the 5 axis units. They want nothing to do with the manual machines.
In high school, 40+ years ago, we has a complete Powermatic wood shop, along with a fully equipped metal shop, forge/foundry/sheet metal/welding/fabrication/machining. Not much you couldn’t do with the tools/equipment available. Shop teacher was old school, didn’t take any shit, and ran things as a job shop. You didn’t make anything until a drawing was generated, checked, and verified. A bill of materials was generated, and materials were requested and purchased. He checked progress, and he let you know if he thought you were taking too much time. Progress was monitored and grades were based on the drawing, Bill of materials, degree of difficulty, time/effort expended, and workmanship of the finished product. No way would you find anything close today. Most of the shop equipment was scrapped when the safety nazis took over.
Screw certificates, advertise for someone to be a mentor.
Start your own “one room school house” school. Find old books to use for teaching.
Home school. Libraries, book stores that deal in old books. Advertise for old books.
Our current school system I believe wastes about 95 of the time students spend in school. Which means we have 95 unused potential. To use that we have to do something radically different. To do that we have to think radically differently. What if you forgot everything you knew about education and were free to come up with a completely different system? What if there were no restrictions to your imagination about how we would educate children prepare them to reach their greatest potential live their wildest dreams be the happiest they could and in that happiness accomplish and contribute the maximum possible for themselves their families their communities and ultimately to the overall success of the whole country? What kind of an educational system would you come up with?
Got my thumbs up.
Great idea! Won’t happen! Not in line with (((Their))) agenda to turn America into an owned and operated serfdom by (((Them))).
If I put red dots on my Grandkids foreheads will that help them get a job?
You can, but us medico people will think they will have some strain of weird indian measles…
Innerwebz comment of the day DMM.
Oh, and fuck musk. He put himself on a list somewhere.
Manufacturing here in the US creates global pollution.
Manufacturing therefore only can be done in China where pollution does not exist, because if it DID exist there the left would be protesting them 7*24.
Unless of course all those protests are FINANCED by China.
This sounds great on paper, but not only won’t happen, I wouldn’t trust the public school system for diddly shit now, especially anything involving potentially dangerous tools and equipment. If we want to establish private tech schools to this end, I have no problem with that.
Well stated! And, unfortunately, true.
Private tech schools like ITT and Corinthian?
https://www.businessinsider.com/for-profit-colleges-alleged-fraud-student-loans-debt-cancelation-education-2021-3?op=1
No, not like those. Those were scams, something we have an a over abundance of in the FUSA. At least those were driven out of business by their failure to provide a useful product. Meanwhile, government run schools never go out of business, no matter how badly they suck. So, we are grossly overpaying to indoctrinate and churn out classrooms full of uneducated morons.
Maybe President Musk will personally fund technical schools nationwide like Carnegie built libraries and concert halls. He could save money by staffing with H1B visa holders.
One thing that Trump said he’d do that I’m totally in favor of is to get rid of the department of education. If it can be done some other way than the DoE ordering it, I’m down with it.
It is impossible to get rid of any government organisation. Period. That’s the problem.
Or program, Reagan said so.
It will never happen until we abolish the State Rules of having to have a teacher’s certificate ( well, OK, its actually the Teachers Union’s rule, but they control the legislatures in nearly all states).
I know lots of retired folks who could teach machining, carpentry, electrical, electronics, metal-working, auto mechanics, you name it, but the Almighty God of Teaching Certification says ‘No F-ing Way’.
Exactly. Hence my assertion that American education will continue to suck badly until the public school system, and all that comes with it (unions, the NEA, extortionate taxation to fund it all , etc.) gets it’s back broken and is.finally consigned to the scrap heap of history where it rightly belongs. I don’t even think the state should be involved in education, much less the feds.
Government, irrespective of its jurisdiction, always and everywhere has a perverse incentive to not only make education as costly as possible (as doing so puts more money in the pockets of those who run it) but to fuck it up with agendas and social engineering that is not in the best interest of the students, their parents, or the country in general. They need to be driven out of it entirely. But for that to happen will require a fundamental reordering of society that I don’t see as likely anytime soon.
“I don’t even think the state should be involved in education, much less the feds.”
Who’s going to pay for private education? Only rich folks can afford schools that don’t take public $$. Not many rich folks are going to pay for their kids to learn a trade.
What’s the alternative and who will pay for it?
The ‘alternative’ is what we USED to have.
Local school districts that have autonomy to tax, to build, to hire, to fire.
Without all the State and Federal regulations, the cost of doing the business of Education would drop dramatically, making it feasible to finance and govern it on a local level.
Bingo. Not only that, but public schools extort everyone with property taxes to fund their operation. If they didn’t exist, the tax money they steal would still be in everyone’s pocket, so affording education wouldn’t be that much of an issue. Especially since there are many districts that are blowing over $20,000 a year per student now, and there is no way it should cost that much.
Prior to the 1970’s half of Americans didn’t finish high school. Get rid of government rules and girls sports and special ed become optional. Got a “special needs” kid? Tough.
Get rid of government money and who will pay for all the technology used in tech education today? Compare the equipment kids got trained on 40 or 50 years ago to what’s in vocational schools or community colleges today. How many localities could afford that? Smaller rural schools will be screwed.
Simple solutions sound nice. Pie in the sky nostalgia is useless.
If we get government out of schools we’d be living in Lake Woebegone where all the men are strong, all the women are good looking and all the kids above average.
Shilling for the existing system that is broken beyond any hope of reform due to entrenched interests controlling it is no solution either. How many more productive and capable people did we produce when “half of Americans didn’t finish high school”?
I’m willing to get a goodly number more than we do now, even if most “finish” high school, which means nothing for many who graduated, as they gleaned nearly nothing from their attendance, and were passed on down the line like a defective product on an assembly line that has to be kept moving.
Excusing the massive failings of American education (and allowing it to go on unchecked) because one cannot conceive of anything else taking the place of what currently exists is a bullshit copout.
Does the system need improvement? Yes, however your hyperbolic criticism of education could just as easily apply to any institution; the courts, military, church, etc. and is simply mental masturbation. Let’s tear it all down and see what happens is a childish mindset. The inadequate development of critical thinking skills has plagued American education for years, culminating with the election of Trump.
As I suspected, an apologist for the status quo in our midst. You can call my arguments mental masturbation if you wish, nothing hyperbolic about them. My criticism is entirely valid, and not at all overstated as to the severity of the problem.
The failure to fix any of the institutions you mentioned will ultimately result in a real fucking for all of us. Best get ready to take it dry, because nothing is getting fixed, irrespective of who is occupying the White House. We are dialed in for a real game over moment.
Thus endeth the debate, because there is really nothing further to discuss. Denial of what’s coming will not prevent it’s arrival. Good luck, you’re going to need it.
I remember my pap telling me in about 1970, “this school b.s. in getting out of control, all they want is to brainwash you kids into their way of thinking”….I didn’t have a clue what he was talking about, I was only 12…..we lived way out in the sticks…..damn, was my old country farm raised pap prescient in his outlook on education…..thank God him and my mama gave me a good raising and made sure I didn’t get “brainwashed”….I passed that on to my three younguns…..
“How can you tell if a politician is lying….from mayor to president? Their lips are moving”!!
it can be done. but it has to be at the local or state level. there are a lot of retired tool and die makers. machinists who would love to teach others how to do it.
hell, there are a lot of retired guys with skills that could teach or pass on those skills. give the old guys something to do and the damn kids would learn the joy of making something or getting something to work right !
instead of looking at their damn phone all day.
You first have to rein in the lawyers, because that’s what’s behind getting rid of most of the votech programs.
Fear of being sued for injury. Actually being sued for injury.
So much cheaper to turn a school into a ‘fine arts’ magnet school because we need more talented workers at fast food joints and waiters and waitresses.
I rebuilt a 351 Windsor in shop class when I was a senior in 79.
The pickings are slim for full time shop teachers. Most of the machinists these days are cnc operators. Where I work, if you need something done that doesn’t have a program, you need to find the old guys that can set up and do manual machining. The shop has a 10ee lathe and a Bridgeport, along with an older large lathe and a slew of Haas 5 axis machining centers. The younger guys can make parts with the 5 axis units. They want nothing to do with the manual machines.
In high school, 40+ years ago, we has a complete Powermatic wood shop, along with a fully equipped metal shop, forge/foundry/sheet metal/welding/fabrication/machining. Not much you couldn’t do with the tools/equipment available. Shop teacher was old school, didn’t take any shit, and ran things as a job shop. You didn’t make anything until a drawing was generated, checked, and verified. A bill of materials was generated, and materials were requested and purchased. He checked progress, and he let you know if he thought you were taking too much time. Progress was monitored and grades were based on the drawing, Bill of materials, degree of difficulty, time/effort expended, and workmanship of the finished product. No way would you find anything close today. Most of the shop equipment was scrapped when the safety nazis took over.
Screw certificates, advertise for someone to be a mentor.
Start your own “one room school house” school. Find old books to use for teaching.
Home school. Libraries, book stores that deal in old books. Advertise for old books.
Evil Franklin
A Completely New Model For Education.
09/21/2016 by: gregpenglis Source: IntellectualConservative
https://intellectualconservative.com/articles-1/a-completely-new-model-for-education
Our current school system I believe wastes about 95 of the time students spend in school. Which means we have 95 unused potential. To use that we have to do something radically different. To do that we have to think radically differently. What if you forgot everything you knew about education and were free to come up with a completely different system? What if there were no restrictions to your imagination about how we would educate children prepare them to reach their greatest potential live their wildest dreams be the happiest they could and in that happiness accomplish and contribute the maximum possible for themselves their families their communities and ultimately to the overall success of the whole country? What kind of an educational system would you come up with?
Evil Franklin